Lisa Dion
Hi, listeners. Thank you so much for joining for this next episode of Lessons from the Playroom Podcast. I have with me a returning guest to talk about a topic that, shockingly, we have not covered in this entire podcast series—which is crazy because today, we’re talking about working with the family system.
What?! I know—it’s kind of wild! So, I have with me Dr. Stacy Jagger, who I’ll introduce in just a minute. We’re going to dive into all things family therapy—how to support the family as a system, and the pros and cons of this approach.
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Yeah.
Lisa Dion
For those of you who don’t know Dr. Stacy Jagger, we previously recorded an episode about technology and its impact on families, where we introduced a concept Stacy is well known for: the 30-day blackout. Put that on your radar and go back to listen to that episode if you haven’t already.
Here’s a little intro for those unfamiliar with Dr. Stacy Jagger. She’s affectionately known as “Dr. Sassy.” Yes, that’s right—Dr. Sassy! She’s on a mission to heal disconnection in children and families. She’s the founder and clinical director of Music City Family Therapy and creator of The Mountain Method, a therapeutic protocol. She’s also the author of The 30-Day Blackout. Stacy is widely praised for her connection-based, rapid-results approach to relational and family challenges, which is exactly why I asked her to join us for this topic.
Her ability to connect to the child within and speak bold, heart-centered truths with humor has earned her the nickname “Dr. Sassy.” She also founded The Advocate for a Creative Child, a nonprofit that underwrites mental healthcare for underprivileged children and builds “state of playhouses” in underserved communities in Nashville, Tennessee. Amazing, right? And she and her holistic naturopath husband, Ron Jagger—who’s also amazing—are the proud parents of four equally amazing children. In her free time, Stacy can usually be found exploring nature, playing music with her kids, or enjoying her lifelong love of ballroom dancing.
Hi, Dr. Sassy!
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Hey! It’s so good to hang out with you.
Lisa Dion
It’s always lovely hanging out with you.
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Yeah.
Lisa Dion
So, Stacy, there’s this thing in the play therapy world that I’m just going to name. For many play therapists, initial training is heavily focused on understanding and working with the child—usually one-on-one. I think that’s true for a lot of us. Not every play therapist, of course, but most. Then there’s often extended training to involve parents and work with the parent-child dyad. But to really think about the family as the client—that’s not as common.
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Dion
The idea of the family as the client just isn’t how most of us are taught. And I know you come at this from a completely different approach. So, let’s talk about families.
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Yeah, absolutely. I love this conversation already.
Lisa Dion
Why did you gravitate toward the family as the primary focus rather than just one-on-one work with the child?
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Sure. So, I grew up in Nashville, Tennessee. I’m 50 years old now, but when I was 10, I desperately needed help for myself and my family. To my knowledge, there wasn’t a child and family therapist in all of Nashville at that time. A lot of my work is informed by the child inside of me.
When I decided to go back to graduate school and launch my private practice—I’d been in community mental health before that—I noticed the field was very child-centered, which was great. But my own story informed my desire to work with the whole family on the child’s behalf.
Honestly, I was shocked after grad school that I couldn’t find anyone to mentor me in family systems therapy combined with play therapy. So, I had to piece together my own framework, which I call The Mountain Method. It’s designed to work with the entire family system.
From the beginning, I’d get calls for children, and while my paperwork would list the child as the client, I’d express to parents that I’d be working with the whole family on the child’s behalf. My training in family systems was solid, and I incorporated play therapy techniques into that systemic framework.
I truly believe that children can’t change unless the parents change. Farming everyone out to different therapists isn’t always practical for families. Many families want a single guide to walk them through a process of transformation and healing. I tell them, “I can’t do the work for you, but I know the way if you want me to show you.”
Speaker 2 (Dr. Stacy Jagger):
I’ll continue doing my own work with my family because I was raised in a violent, alcoholic household. By the time I left home at 16, we’d been evicted 15 times. I didn’t even start parenting myself until I was legally an adult. So, when I became a mother, I knew that if I didn’t continue to do my own work, I wouldn’t be able to show up for my kids in the way I wanted.
This has really become a lifestyle for me. I tell my supervisees and interns that my caseload is overflowing, and I want people I trust to take on this work. They need to learn to work in the same way. Being a family therapist, in the way I practice, is like being an artist backed by science. I’ve truly turned family therapy into an art form, and I raise other therapists who want to be artists in the same way. Does that translate to your question?
Speaker 1 (Lisa Dion):
Yes, it totally does. I have a follow-up question before we get into the process itself. For a lot of play therapists, when they say, “Oh yeah, I do family work,” what they’re really saying is they do parent-child dyadic work. When you work with families, do you also work with siblings? Is it the whole system, or just the parent and the child?
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Good question! To avoid overwhelming your audience, let me be clear: Session 1 is a parent consultation. Session 2 is a parent-child play-based assessment. Session 3 is with the other parent. Session 4 is another parent consultation. Session 5 is a check-in where I work with the child using child-centered play therapy.
The first six sessions are heavy on assessment and joining. Around Session 5 or 6, I have the creativity to work with the subsets of the family system that need the most attention. My goal is to massage the system to help everyone climb the mountain they’ve named.
At the beginning, parents tell me, “Here’s where we are at the bottom of the mountain, and here’s what we want at the top.” During check-ins, they might say, “I think we’re 30% there,” or “50% there.” That’s how I monitor progress.
Typically, I work weekly with the family until we’re halfway up the mountain. Then, sessions move to every other week, then once a month. Finally, we pick a graduation date and celebrate at the end.
But let me stress: I don’t have the whole family in my office on Day 1. That would be too much. Instead, I massage the system as we go. You don’t want six dysregulated nervous systems in your office all at once. There’s a method to my madness.
Lisa Dion
Ah, I see. As you’re talking, I’m thinking: you’re a holistic therapist. You’re gathering information from multiple angles to truly understand what’s happening—not just from one perspective, but from many. From all that information, you’re putting together a treatment plan that might involve whoever needs to be involved. Maybe it’s siblings, maybe it isn’t. Maybe it’s one parent, both parents, or everyone. Am I hearing that right?
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Exactly, yes.
Lisa Dion
After your assessment, have you ever realized the child isn’t the problem?
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Oh, absolutely. Sometimes, after the assessment, I’ll decide to work with just the dad for a while or just the parents. Other times, I’ll focus on the child for a bit. But from the very beginning, I conceptualize the whole family system and climb the mountain with them.
Lisa Dion
What do you do when you encounter a family system that doesn’t want to be part of the process? Sometimes parents bring their child and say, “We don’t need to be involved.” How do you handle that?
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Great question. It depends on the family, but I’ll be honest—I’m a bit of a **** ***. Let me give you a few answers.
One option is to work with the most motivated parts of the system first, which can create more willingness in other members over time. In a divorce scenario, for example, I might work with one parent initially. When the other parent starts seeing progress and hope rises, they often become more willing to engage.
But I’ll also say this: from the beginning, I’m very clear about how I practice. I win the battle for structure right away. I tell them, “If you want me to help your child, this is how I do things.”
That said, I’ve learned to be more flexible over the years. Some things come out in the wash if you trust the process and massage things as you go.
Speaker 2 (Dr. Stacy Jagger):
Willingness and hope often rise over time, and parents become willing to do things they weren’t open to before—especially if you perturb the system on purpose. Sometimes I’ll tell parents, “There’s nothing like a common enemy to bring a family together.” I have no problem being the “bad guy” for a little while if it serves the family.
But I’ll be honest: working with the whole family is twice the energy and scheduling. It’s a lot to hold space for so many people. I think I’m willing to work this hard because, deep down, I wish someone had done this for me when I was a child.
I just wish someone had come along and said, “Hey, little Stacy, they think you’re the problem, but you’re actually the hero. And not only are you going to get help, but your whole family is going to get help.” That’s why I work the way I do.
Typically, my treatment time is about three to six months from start to finish. Sometimes it’s shorter or longer, but families usually have about that much bandwidth. During that time, I do a lot of reparenting work with the parents, integrate the siblings, and create a process that works for everyone.
Speaker 1 (Lisa Dion):
This is beautiful. As you were speaking, I was thinking about the word “artist,” which you’ve used a few times. Let’s dive into that. What does it mean to be an artist in the context of therapy?
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Early in my career, I had a conversation with Eliana Gil that I’ll never forget. She told me that many therapists work from a book or a box, but she encouraged me to think differently. She gave me permission to be creative and to find my own way.
My background is in performing arts—I was a dance teacher and music teacher in my early 20s—so I already had a creative mindset. I don’t follow rules easily. For me, being an artist backed by science means giving yourself permission to think outside the box. If the front door isn’t working, you take the chimney, the side door, or the roof.
It means creating micro-changes in the system based on what you choose to say or do. This approach makes my job fun and keeps me from getting bored. And honestly, when you’re working with entire family systems, you almost have to think like an artist.
Lisa Dion
Totally. Being an artist in therapy isn’t necessarily about drawing or painting—it’s about adapting and being in flow with what’s needed. I’m hearing you say it’s about having trust in yourself as a therapist to adapt and follow what’s needed in the moment.
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Yes, exactly.
Lisa Dion
I think a lot of therapists struggle with this because the field has swung so far toward protocols and linear steps. Therapists are often disconnected from their own intuition. They’re focused on doing things the “right” way instead of trusting themselves to adapt as needed.
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Absolutely. When I work with my supervisees, I tell them, “I don’t want you to be me—I want you to be you.” You have to own your story, your creativity, and your perspective.
I’ll be honest: I’ve always felt a little like a unicorn in the play therapy world. Family systems training isn’t on the forefront of play therapy, and family therapists are underrepresented in the field. But I’ve learned that nothing is more important than showing up as yourself in the playroom. When you model authenticity for your clients, you give them permission to be themselves too.
Lisa Dion
What would you say to a therapist who doesn’t feel creative or doesn’t think they’re an artist?
Dr. Stacy Jagger
I believe everyone is creative. It’s just about finding your own form of artistry. Maybe your artistry is in the sand tray. Maybe it’s puppets, books, or dress-up. Find what feels authentic to you and own it.
For example, Paris Goodyear-Brown was my supervisor for 3.5 years. She has a drama background and is amazing with puppets. That was her artistry, and she owned it.
As a therapist, reconnect with the child inside of you. Let them out of the cage, let them be messy, and trust their voice. Creativity is a mitigator for burnout. It brings joy and life to your work. For me, creativity has helped me avoid burnout as both a therapist and a mother.
Lisa Dion
I’m smiling because this reminds me of an article I wrote called How Jon Bon Jovi Helped Me Become a Play Therapist.
Dr. Stacy Jagger
I’ve read it! It’s so good.
Lisa Dion
As a kid, I would stand on my bed with stuffed animals around me, rocking out to Bon Jovi. No one would pay to hear me sing, but the freedom and joy I felt in those moments—that’s what I bring into the playroom.
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Exactly. And when you bring that freedom into the playroom, you give your clients permission to be happy, joyous, and free.
Lisa Dion
This has been such a powerful conversation. Stacy, any final thoughts for our listeners about working with families?
Dr. Stacy Jagger
Yes, I want to name something. One reason many therapists don’t work with families is because of insurance. Insurance coding and reimbursement often make it harder to work with the whole system. It’s heartbreaking because I know many therapists want to do this work but feel restricted by systemic barriers.
For therapists in that situation, my Mountain Method course could be a resource. Families can go through it at home while the child sees a local therapist. It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s something.
Lastly, I want to say how grateful I am to be part of this field. It’s a small community, and we all deeply care about children. This is the hill I’m going to die on, and I’m so thankful for people like you, Lisa, who inspire and mentor others.
Lisa Dion
Thank you, Stacy. This has been amazing. Listeners, I encourage you to rethink the idea of the “client” being just the child. Let’s broaden our perspective to include the whole family system.
Take care of yourselves and the little one inside you. Until next time!
