[Music] Hi listeners, thank you once again for
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tuning in to another episode from the Lessons from the Playroom podcast. I
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have uh with me a a guest that has joined me before, but after we finished recording the last one uh which was all
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about the concept of attachment to self. Um we realized there are more
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discussions for us to have and so I have welcomed back um Millie Shoemaker. Uh
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thank you Millie for coming back and joining again. Um, if you have not yet listened to the episode where we got
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into this concept around attachment to self, I encourage you to have a listen.
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Uh, but if you haven’t, let me introduce you or to reintroduce you to Millie.
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Millie um Millie and I have known each other for many, many, many, many years.
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In fact, I I knew Millie before synergetic play Therapy became Synergetic Play Therapy. Um, Millie and
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I have um taught together. She is one of my certified uh synergetic sort of
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everything consultant and supervisor trainer uh and um and just super
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grateful for your wisdom and your knowledge Millie while we have yet another really important conversation
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about yet another topic that isn’t really spoken a lot about in the play
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therapy world. So thank you Millie for joining me again. Thank you, Lisa, and
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thank you for for having this conversation with me. Yeah. So, we’re gonna talk about aggression. And as I
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say that, listeners, you might be like, “Wait a second, Lisa. You wrote a book on it.” We’ve talked about aggression.
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We’re going to talk about it from a totally different uh totally different angle. So, Millie, you want to want to
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kick this off? Um Yes. Where we’re headed today. So, we’re going to talk about aggression
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and we’re going to talk about um what happens to us therapies
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when we get triggered in aggression. Meaning if we will if if you want to
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call it the aggressive or the aggressor in us gets you know activated when we
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the therapist right um because of something that is happening in the play
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connect with that aggression within ourselves we tend to talk about you know
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when the kid plays or projects aggression onto us and we feel like it’s
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too much or we tend to go into like hypo if you will and go smaller in the
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experience which I feel that we we talked a lot about that different even
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different you know like you can read about it from that angle right like as therapists receiving the aggression but
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what we don’t talk about much in in in play therapy and even as parents what
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happens when that aggression that is within ourselves as therapist gets
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triggered exactly when when we’re the aggressor in the It’s not the it’s not
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the child, it’s us. Or or maybe, you
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know, it’s not expressed, but the part of our own history that has our own
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experience either as an aggressor or even our own experiences with aggression
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growing up or whatever that those then get activated in the playroom and then our protective patterns, you know, come out. So, we’re going to hit this from a
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nuanced angle. this this conversation isn’t so much about what do you do when
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aggression comes into the playroom. I you can read the book aggression and play Therapy um for that and then we’ve
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also covered that in some past episodes here. But let’s just talk about us as the therapists and what happens what
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happens inside inside of us. Before we get in there, um Millie, I just want to
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name I, you know, I wrote the book in in two uh 2018 is when I wrote the book and
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obviously didn’t write it in 2018. That’s when it was published. So, I started working on the book probably like in 2016. So, that’s almost a decade
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ago. And I wrote the book because we
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weren’t talking about aggression in our field. you know, it was something that as play therapists we all experience in
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the playroom, but people weren’t talking about it. Like people were talking about trauma and you know how trauma can show
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up, but like what do you actually do like with aggression? And I remember feeling
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um you almost like gosh like why is this a taboo subject? Like why aren’t we
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talking about this? And and it has become apparent to me even over the last
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decade of teaching about aggression is that um it’s still a taboo subject. Like
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we’re still not talking about it enough. Um there’s more discussion on in the
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playroom, but to say Millie that this angle that we’re going to get into that I’ve never heard a workshop on it is
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true. I haven’t. I haven’t. and and and my speculation is that this, you know,
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it it it forces us as therapists to reflect on our on our on our own parts
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and that can be really vulnerable and I can also bring up a lot of um guilt and shame because well, we’re human and we
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all have aggressive parts in us and we have this idea as therapists,
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right, that we should be and we show we should show up in a certain way. Yeah. Right. And aggression is not something
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that is welcome. I’m not saying that we are promoting right us to be the aggressors in the play therapy. I’m not
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saying that there’s a you know my curiosity is around we all have the
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ability to connect with all of these different parts that we have within ourselves and aggression is a piece of
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us and it’s a piece of being a human being. So, how can we invite that in a
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way that we grow from the experience and in a way that we can model our clients
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to navigate that? It’s not just about taking a deep breath. Yeah. It’s more than that. Okay. So, I think that we
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need to start out with just this larger conversation around how so many of us
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have so many of us have been trained to leave parts of oursel out of the playroom. And I think the issue actually
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starts there in that framework. this idea that somehow I can separate parts
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of myself and that some parts are welcome and some parts are not welcome.
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And I think the issue with that is that well, first of all, it’s impossible to do. And that really when we attempt to
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do it, what we’re actually doing is compartmentalizing. And when we’re compartmentalizing, we’re not able to
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then be in connection with those parts. But just because we’ve compartmentalized
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something doesn’t mean that we can prevent its activation. So here we are now disconnected from parts of oursel.
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Something happens activated and we’re not connected, right? We’re not connected to oursel. we’re not connected
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to the part which I think actually leads then to the fear really because if we’re
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not connected to the part we have a higher probability then of doing something that’s more
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reactionary rather than responding with an awareness of the part which was where
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I’d love to go in this conversation and so I think we just need to keep
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reiterating this idea that somehow you’re going to leave parts of yourself at the door. Like we we really need to
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stop that kind of um viewpoint of oursel because it’s just not possible and it
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puts us in a position to then not be able to work with what arises in us when
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it arises in the playroom. I don’t know if you want to add to that or if you have a different take on that. No, I
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think you said it beautifully, you know, and I think this idea of parts, right? like that that that is how we’ve been
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trained to leave parts, right? But eventually it creates symptoms when we try to do that. It’s just is it’s not at
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some point something is going to happen in your system in the clients that you
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work with in your life that is going to send me messages to you around integrate
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this part. Yeah. See this part, pay attention to this part. So this is our invitation today. So how can we make
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space for all of us which is also a reflection of what is going on in our
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society not just the US like in the world right we tend to aggression is something that as as sus aspicious we
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have a hard time with even though we have a hard time with we continue to express so how can
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we make space for that and get curious about our internal experience as therapists
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beautiful so I’m just going to take one of the things you just said go with the the next thought which is it’s another
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part of our conditioning. So Millie as you as you know but I’ll just share with our with
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our listeners you know we we really have two parts of our our brain well more
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than two parts but two parts that I think are significant in this discussion you know we have our our animal brain
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and then we have our higher centers of our brain and our our animal brain which is really instinct impulse survival um
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very reactionary um is is part of us right it’s it’s it’s part of our builtin
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so we call it our animal nature, if you will. Um, it’s it’s part of our design,
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right, for for survival. And that part of our brain functions off of a
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principle that we could call the pain pleasure principle. And what that means, because it’s survival driven, is um move
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me towards the things that I perceive feel good and get me away from the things that I don’t like and the things
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that I perceive as somehow bad. And it’s really just that. And again, you can hear it’s all about survival. Um the the
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challenge with that part of our brain is that when we think that that is
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ultimately what our psychology is about and we don’t recognize that there’s a higher order, there’s a there’s a
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there’s a higher level, which I’ll talk about next. We can fall under this conditioned thinking that sounds like
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this. It’s better to be nice than not nice. It’s better to feel peaceful than
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warful, right? It’s better to have cooperation than conflict. And we strive
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for these sort of one-sided experiences. And then we’re caught off guard when this other part of our human
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nature, which is just as alive in us, all of a sudden shows up. And the
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conditioning makes us then say, “That part of us is bad. We need to stop it.
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We need to get rid of it. We need to put it in the corner, put it in time out,
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and then we end up shaming those parts of oursel with the irony of is you can never get rid of those parts of yourself
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because they’re built into our our our physiology. They’re built into our psychology. I mean, imagine, right,
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we’re we’re we’re built for for survival here. And you take away my ability to fight.
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Think about when a baby’s born. Think about when a baby is born and when
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a baby is born in a vaginal way. Yeah. That baby needs to
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activate the aggressive part of himself or herself on themselves in order to
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push. Yeah. To go through push push push push fight push push push and come into
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this new space of being. So that energy comes with us since birth. Exactly. And
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we we can’t get rid of that. Or even I mean if we’re going to do this because I think it’s a beautiful way for us to
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appreciate this part of oursel if you took away a baby’s instinctive to fight
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to be able to be aggressive that is a that is a built-in protective mechanism
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you know inside right inside of the baby. And again that is not something that somehow magically disappears in us
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as we as we get older. The piece that um that I think is
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important then to talk about is that there there there is a sort of higher a
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higher possibility in the brain. And when I say higher possibility, I want to make sure people aren’t hearing better. Not saying better. I’m just saying a
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higher ordered possibility. Um which means the ability to respond instead and
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right instead of react. That’s it, right? The ability to respond instead of react when we start talking about our prefrontal
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cortex. But the part that is so important for us to wrap our mind around is that as long as we are coming from a
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conditioned thinking that aggression is bad and that calm is better or peace is
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better, we’re not going to be able to then move into our higher ordered
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thinking in order to be able to uh in uh to respond instead of of react. Right?
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There really needs to be when I’m about in in integration or connection with these parts of ourel you have to have an
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appreciation for the part of yourself. You have to be able to understand it. You have to be able to recognize its
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purpose. You have to be able to recognize when it’s useful like right when it’s you what you know when it’s
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useful. So there is this piece of like honoring this very real animal part that
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exists within us and stop labeling it bad. Stop labeling it as wrong.
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Yeah. Right. So, should we swing this conversation into the playroom? Yes.
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Which by the way, what Lisa just shared is huge. And for some of you, this may
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be new, right? But this is where we’re coming from from a place of this is not that is good or right. It exists. Can we
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tune into why we are right getting activated in that way? And then just
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make space for that part. And then how do we want to consciously show up? Yes.
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From a higher, you know, from higher centers of the brain. What is how we want to respond to that that we’re
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feeling. Exactly. Beautiful. So let’s uh let’s invite a breath.
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Exactly. So here’s a common scenario, Millie. And you know, you do so much uh
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work yourself uh in the playroom and supervision and you’ve heard countless stories as well. But here’s a really
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common story. Uh the therapist is in the playroom with the child and the child
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starts doing something that um feels really challenging for the
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therapist. Um I’ll just make something up for the sake of making something up.
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the child um uh wants to throw something at the all right wants to throw
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something at the therapist or actually let’s even go let’s even go when that’s sort of less um less sort of direct
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aggress aggressive starts calling the therapist names right there’s sort of a
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a feeling of rejection in the play right the the child is calling the therapist names and um and the
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therapist starts to feel angry like this this part arises in the
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therapist that’s like I don’t want to be treated this way. I deserve more respect than this, right? Like I shouldn’t
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tolerate this, right? I shouldn’t tolerate being spoken to like this. Like are you kidding me? This is a
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5-year-old, right? Like I’m an adult person, right? And this sort of feeling,
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you know, can arise. Um I mean that’s just one example. Um, another example
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might be that maybe the child is doing something that is perceived as scary or
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something or threatening in some way and then you know up comes this instinct inside of the therapist to uh to protect
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right to uh to aggress back right in some way either with words or um you
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know physically like we’re you know we’re done or you know something but there’s just these moments I I don’t
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know if you want to add other examples but there’s these moments when this like arises in the therapist.
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I can share some of my trigger points. So for me two things with kids something
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that can activate this part myself is um when I’m being ignored. Uhhuh. When I’m
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being ignored like when the kid is not even like it’s not looking at me is playing in a corner is like pretends
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that I’m not there part of me. So what I feel internally is like like I want to
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shake the kid. I don’t do it. But that is the the the internal sensation, right? Like look at me, pay attention to
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me. And with adults, for those that also work with adults, my trigger point is when I have someone that is complaining,
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complaining, and complaining. What I how I want to react is like, do I have
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permission to say how I feel? I want Yeah. Right. Yeah. Do it. That is my
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internal sensation. Those are my trigger points that connect with my relationship with aggression. Yeah. Okay. So, since
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we’re we’re naming that and I think this is part of the why we’re having this conversation is we want to invite more
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self-reflection on the part of the therapist around identifying their their their points. For me, a feeling of
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trapped is is one of mine. And um it could be a literal physical sort of
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feeling of trapped. Um but it also could be sort of the the ongoing um like can’t
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get out of the d like almost like a there’s a barrage of something happening
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at me the and I and I can’t sort of maneuver right out of it. Um that can
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bring a feeling up in me. And for me the feeling is I’m done, right? Like that’s the feeling like I just want to be done,
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right? like like just this like stop done, right? Um and that’s one that that
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I noticed, right, that that that comes up for me. So listeners, I do I really
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want you to think about what is when you get activated because let’s
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all be aware that we do. So let’s just start there like we all do. And and if
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you’re like, “Wow, Lisa, I’m really struggling to see it in the playroom.” Great. Look at it in your own life if your own kids your relationships but
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look at when when you feel activated like first of all can you even be aware
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that you are activated and then what what’s the sensation with that and like what’s the thought pattern that goes
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along goes along with them and then Millie let’s invite the next part of curiosity because that’s not about the
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kid that has nothing to do with the kid nothing the child is Um uh I like to use
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the language has created the conditions right the child has created
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the conditions for other parts of our self
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to emerge right that’s it right they’ve just created the conditions in their own work being themselves whatever it is and
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um and these other parts are often um our own childhood
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wounds our own past experiences with you know whatever whatever whatever it is
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our own belief systems around so I’ll go to that example of you know like this
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kid can’t talk to me that way like that’s so rude where’s that come from like where’s that come from what is
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happening inside of that therapist in the moment where they have all of a sudden personalized the play I think
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that’s an interesting piece right they’ve personalized the play rather than recognizing that they’re in a
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conversation together and that it’s actually not personal. It feels personal because our our parts have emerged, but
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that’s not personal. It’s part of the that’s part of the play. It’s part of the child’s processing part of their
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story. And so, who’s in the room with us? That’s a great question. Like, who
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just showed up? And how old is that part? And and what’s the conditioning of
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that part? and what did that part learn to do or not do in these sort of similar types of
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um of of conditions? And then here we are
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again. It’s huge. It’s huge. And I think what is important is to understand that
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not always aggression like it’s not that the kid is playing in an aggressive way that
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wakes up in as aggression. Sometimes it’s the other way, right? I just share my trigger point. me being ignored,
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right? Like because sometimes we think that it’s only aggression with aggression. No. What about another trigger point for me is that when
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clients don’t show up, didn’t let me know and I’m wasting my time. I want to
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explode and I want to scream, right? Because I am feeling not value. So I know where that is coming from my
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internal dialogue, right? So my invitation is can we get curious about what you said our internal dialogue. The
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moment that we start to having that conversation with ourselves, we lose contact. We lose, you know, presence
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with our clients. Yeah. And we just do this. We come back to us and stay in a
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conversation with young Millie and adult Millie blah blah blah blah, right? And
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all the wounds come up and then I’m not in the in in in relationship with my client anymore. Yeah. Well, let’s go one
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step further, which is super interesting, is that in these moments when we get activated, um let’s just
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name for what it is, a um a protective pattern has emerged, right? The part that’s shown up um carries an important
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protective pattern, you know, with it. And when we are reacting and that protective pattern is what’s being
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expressed in the moment, we’ve actually just shifted the dynamic in the play and
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we’ve made the child the perpetrator, the responsible
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responsible one, the aggressor, the meanie, the bully, the right. And so
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it’s an interesting piece where we actually energetically flip, right? We
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we flip the energy in the room um when uh when we lose the ability to be in
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relationship with that part and that part then takes over. Yeah. Which is
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interesting. Now I want to say something because I think this is really important. You know we said at the
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beginning that one of the reasons why we don’t have this conversation is because it brings up a lot of guilt and shame. So, let’s just go ahead and normalize.
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Millie and I right now are pointing out a dynamic because it’s an important dynamic for us to think about and
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consider. However, even understanding the dynamic, does that mean that there aren’t going to be times when
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um you know we react instead of respond and that part takes over? Yes. So if
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there have been times, let’s just say there have been times in the times when
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the energy has flipped, in the times when we’ve taken it personally, in the
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times when we have responded, you know, in a way where
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later we’re like, “Oh my gosh, I cannot believe I responded that way or what have I done?” Can we recognize that um
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that uh grace is a really beautiful thing that we are also humans. We’re
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also on a journey um can we come back into repair with ourselves and then if
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we need to then we can do repair with the child and that’s a beautiful beautiful gift. So I don’t want this
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conversation to add to the pressure and the fantasy that therapists also have
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that somehow again these parts shouldn’t get activated in the playroom. They will
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get activated in the playroom. They will. The question is just what do we do with it?
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Yeah. Yes. I feel like feel like these days,
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Millie, my new sort of of my new sort of
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battlecry, I guess, in our therapy world is like, can we just lower the bar back
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to human? Like, come on, folks. Like we have we have um we have fantasized our
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role in such a way where therapists are really dealing with so much internalized
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conflict about who they actually are versus who they think they they should
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be. And there’s there’s so much internalized conflict that that that’s happening because of our of our
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fantasies that somehow we’re supposed to be these non-human, you know, people.
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Yeah. Or like only certain parts show up. And so what I like about this
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conversation is that we, you know, the four threads are coming to me. The four
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threats to the brain, right? like how like the importance of making the known known like really making space for again
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all of us as long as you’re a human you have this part within yourself. What is
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interesting is can you track what triggers because we all have different
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experiences and not the same thing is gonna activate that part in us and then the more that we get curious about our
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relationship with that the more um the more ability we’re going to have later
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on to access higher centers of of the brain and respond in a way that doesn’t
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hurt others that doesn’t hurt myself. that if we don’t get curious around this
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that you know that reptilian brain is going to continue to take over us even if even if we don’t express it because
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you don’t necessarily have to express it because sometimes we don’t express it but internally that continues to exist
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and as you as you said as you said it when we are having that internal dialogue with ourselves we’re changing
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the dynamic with our clients. Yeah. So is even if you don’t express it
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externally. Yeah. Is still impacting the relationship with the client and with
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yourself. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So uh congruency in
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our internal environment. All right. How do we have honesty within? You know what
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does that what does that even look like and mean? How do we quiet the shoods inside which are you know those pieces?
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So let’s just talk about in addition to becoming aware of the pattern which is just that’s just a huge place to start.
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It’s beginning this journey of befriending the part when the part emerges you know shaming the part. It’s
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like okay put in the con. You have a child who’s just doing something um
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that’s trying to get attention and we turn around we shame the child. What’s the child gonna do? Probably act out
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more. Yeah. Right. Down. Right. Down. Right. Exactly. And then at some point
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explode or something. Right. Uh and so, you know, if we think of it from that
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perspective, when we shame those parts in us, in some ways, it’s an invitation
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for the part to get louder. Yeah. because those parts want to be loved and
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appreciated too because they’re part they’re part of the part of the whole, right? Um and
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so how do we um notice? So like in real time, Millie, let’s say that um you’re
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my client and um well, you’re ignoring me. Go to your example, right? You’re
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right. you’re ignoring me and um I mean you’re not responding at all. Maybe
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you’re turning your back to me a little bit. Um and I’m I’m noticing something in me, right? I’m I’m I’m noticing that
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there’s activation in my physiology, but more importantly, I’m noticing that I’m starting to get lost in the story,
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right? I’m noticing I’m getting lost in the story or I’m noticing I’m creating a story that feels like a personal story,
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right? So the difference in this moment between um recognizing, oh, this is part of
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Millie helping me understand what what she went through or this is part of
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Millie helping me understand what it feels like to be her. So, that’s one type of holding versus I can’t believe
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she’s not talking to me. Like, why isn’t she talking to me? Like, I feel I feel like like she’s rejecting me. So, we can
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hear the shift over to the personalization, which is a really big internal uh clue. So let’s say I become
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aware like I’ve now created a story about you Millie and what you are doing to me in the moment right in the
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play. How do I just observe and how do I
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begin to move into relationship with that part? Maybe it’s putting a hand on
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maybe I feel the activation in my chest. Maybe it’s putting a hand on my chest. Maybe it’s putting a hand on my belly.
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Maybe I’m noticing energy in my in my hands. That’s a big one, you know, for me. So maybe I bring attention right to
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my hands. Or how do I ground myself in some way where I can anchor
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in or I can create a little bit of internal safety as I’m noticing the part. But it also allows me to now
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become aware of something different. Right? So I’m I’m feeling it. I’m noticing I’m not rejecting the part. I’m
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not shaming the part. What are you doing here? or shut up. You know what? I’m not doing any of that. It’s like, oh, hey,
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I’m activated. Okay, I know this part. I know this
31:01
pattern. I’ve tracked this pattern before. Okay, this isn’t about me. Okay,
31:07
let me connect. Okay, let me breathe. Let me move. Whatever it is. All right,
31:12
back to Millie. All right, how do I take a breath and come back to this relationship with Millie? Uh, what is
31:19
Millie wanting me to understand right now? What is Millie helping me explore,
31:24
you know, right now? Or, oh, back to the play, right? What’s happening in the play? Or maybe even that’s too big of a
31:30
stretch. Maybe I just need to zoom around and look at the room and remind myself I’m even in the play therapy position,
31:35
right? So, I don’t know if you want to add to that, Millie. Um,
31:42
what I will add is that in order to get there, in my opinion, you have to know your relationship with aggression. We
31:50
all have it. Yes, we all have it. So, in order to get to that place of I seen this before, I identify this pattern. I
31:57
know that my young self is getting activated. In order to get there, you have to become curious around your
32:06
relationship with aggression, your history with aggression. We all have it. Yeah. Which also means not making it
32:12
bad. Going back to that part. Yes. Right. You can’t you really cannot
32:19
um develop a rel a working relationship. Go ahead. Right. a working relationship
32:26
with the part if we continually look at the part as
32:32
yeah I remember I this is a very you know a topic that is close to my heart
32:37
because I can truly see the aggressor in myself more so in my parenting and I
32:43
remember a a moment of growth for me in relationship to aggression was when a therapist was able to witness right that
32:52
aggression in me and she held with so much love and so much acceptance and
32:58
that was her imitation. Millie every time you go into aggression and then when you come back like when you flat
33:04
let’s say like when you are outside of your window of tolerance you did something big you were highly activated
33:10
right and then when you come back like when you are able to like be aware of
33:16
what you experienced come back with love make space for that for that part don’t judge
33:23
it understand that if it showed up in that way it’s because something was going on so My my tipping point with
33:31
this was for an an adult, a therapist that I loved and trust to witness that
33:37
witness that with me. So that’s what I want for my clients to be able to be seen and witness in
33:44
that space from a place of Yep. I seen it and you’re still love. Yeah. And
33:50
you’re worthy of love, right? Because ultimately that’s what we all want. Yeah. Right. So, I think that’s so so
33:58
key and spot on. And how beautiful that you had a therapist that could do that
34:04
for you. There are many therapists as you’re listening right now that might think, I
34:11
don’t have someone in my world that holds space for my aggressive parts. Um,
34:18
that the feedback I get with my aggressive parts is that they’re bad.
34:24
And so what I will say is find someone and if you’re not able to find someone,
34:31
become that one, right? Find ways to
34:36
become that one for yourself if you’re not able to have that reflected, you
34:42
know, for you outside of yourself. And and I’m naming that just because we’ve all as a society been
34:49
conditioned that it’s not good. Yeah, true. We’ve been conditioned. So,
34:55
finding those that have learned to be with those parts within themselves. Um I
35:02
it’s it’s not it’s not super common, Millie, right? It’s not. Um and so what
35:08
a gift. And then what a gift for us to develop those parts or those
35:13
relationship within oursel because then we get to do the very thing you just said Millie which is then we can hold
35:19
that for others and we can hold that for our for our clients.
35:25
Something that this therapist did without knowing that she’s an SP without knowing that she is connecting this back
35:33
to our previous episode attachment to self. What was different with this therapist is that she wasn’t fueling my
35:40
aggression, feeding it like, you know, as a in a catharsis way. No, she was
35:46
going with me and she was so like modeling attachment to self and
35:51
helping me find parts within myself that can also make space for that aggression.
35:57
So that’s the difference that that what that is something huge when it comes to aggression because sometimes people
36:03
think that aggression like holding aggression feels means like hey I feel
36:08
the aggression yeah scream as much as you have to scream and no she approached it from a diff from a grounding force.
36:15
Yes. So you and I both have um gestalt uh backgrounds. So I’ll share my moment
36:22
of learning this because I was actually in a gestalt a Gestalt training. So, for those of you that have not done Gestalt
36:29
training, particularly with adults, there’s there’s this thing called a bataka. And a bataka is um how would you
36:36
describe a bataka, Millie? It’s kind of it’s like a it’s like a a sword kind of.
36:42
It’s just like a shorter sword and it has like this foam thing and you hold it and you can use it to hit, right? Like
36:48
if you imagine I’ve got a pillow, I can hold this thing and I can, you know, sort of like take it and thrust it down
36:54
on top of the pillow. And so we were exploring these different sort of energies right inside of us. And I
37:01
remember I was just releasing, right? So I was in a u in a aggressive catharsis
37:10
as I was doing this. And I remember that um the person that was facilitating at
37:16
the time was like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa.” And you notice that you’re disconnected from
37:22
yourself. You’re right. You’re you’re just releasing. Right. Right. You know, and but you’re thinking, “Oh, I’m
37:28
expressing my aggression. I’m getting to know my aggression. Look, here I am letting it come out onto the pillow.
37:34
Here I go.” Right. And and um the facilitator was like, “No, no, no.”
37:39
Um going through the motion and catharsis is not actually about getting
37:44
to know your aggressive parts. Um so as you are expressing as you are feeling
37:53
what that feels like in your body can you simultaneously deeply tune into
37:59
what’s happening in your body? deeply tune into that felt sense in your body
38:04
so that it becomes an embodied integrated experience where the energy
38:10
doesn’t just cycle cycle cycle itually starts to integrate into the right into
38:16
the whole and that was so beautiful because we you know up until that point in a lot of therapies what I had heard a
38:22
lot was yeah like just express right learn how to express and and it’s like
38:29
how do we connectedly expressed because connected expression is very different
38:35
than just expressing through catharsis kind
38:40
of a kind of a way because usually when you are connected in the expression my
38:47
experience is that there is usually an unmet need so aggression is an external
38:54
expression for something deeper that is going within myself so whenever I had those sessions
39:00
expressing my aggression in a connected way. I usually ended up in tears. Exactly. It was so sad and sadness was
39:08
underneath all of aggression. Right. And here you are now actually able to meet that need. Yes. Right. That was being
39:15
masked by the aggression. Really? Yeah. So beautiful.
39:22
So beautiful. Well, Millie, I think that
39:30
um I think this is a great place for us to start to, you know, wrap the
39:36
conversation up for now, but I want to kind of highlight a couple key
39:41
pieces. So, let’s go back and forth for the listener and and do some of the
39:47
highlighted pieces as we because we just we were just presented a lot of information and a lot to think about.
39:53
One of the things that I I heard that you and I both said is get to know the
40:00
part, right? And get to know the trigger, right? Like notice the
40:05
pattern. What’s something else that is standing out for you? That would be like the
40:11
prerequisite. Yeah. For then being able to like these different parts of the brain that you describe, right? that we
40:18
are conditioned to think this is good, this is bad and that that part of the brain that is trying to survive. Well,
40:25
there is this other part of the brain that you name that we can have more choices.
40:31
But that is a prerequisite, right? Knowing the parts. Yeah. Knowing what that knowing what those reactive parts
40:37
are up to. Yes. Yeah. And then when those parts are activated, we regress.
40:45
Exactly. We didn’t say that but coming up like regression. We are in a
40:52
very young place. Yeah. Yeah. Our younger our younger the who’s in the room. Who’s in the room? That’s Yeah.
40:58
Yeah. Who’s in who’s Yeah. Who just showed up in the room, right? Who’s in the room? Um that we also then don’t
41:04
need to ask that part to leave the room. And uh actually in doing so that that part might start pounding at the
41:10
door pretty loudly. Yeah. To let to be let back in. And so how instead do we
41:17
help that part know that we are aware they that it is there like you know I see you how do we connect with that part
41:24
like you said um when we become aware when we connect do it how do we bring
41:30
love into it right how do we how do we do it with an open right open heart and a place of place of curiosity
41:38
um and and the piece that I’ll highlight is you know be aware Um, have you just
41:46
made what’s happened about you, right? The shift in the story. Is it about the process and the child and
41:53
the play and what’s happening, you know, here or is it what this child is now
42:00
doing to me and that something, you know, I I feel like I’m a, for lack of
42:05
better word, I feel like now I’m a victim in the play rather than a facilitator in the in the child’s
42:13
journey. you know there’s a there’s there’s a difference um yeah and so how do I connect with myself in that to
42:19
allow myself then to move into my prefrontal cortex something else is another like um when
42:29
those parts or that part is coming up and you’re feeling shame and guilt and shoots well that’s information right
42:37
that’s information that you haven’t which I feel is like a as long as you’re
42:43
you’re always going to work with that part of ourselves, right? Because socially we’ve been conditioned to believe that this is wrong. But when
42:48
we’re feeling the shame, the guilt, and the shoots, well, that’s information. You know, that part of yourself is
42:54
really trying to to to show up and be loved and be held. And as long as you
42:59
feel all of those things unconsciously, you’re projecting that onto your client as well. So, if you don’t want to do it
43:05
for you, do it for your client. That’s right. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. How can we how can we befriend these parts of
43:11
ourselves so that we can teach others to befriend these parts, you know, of
43:18
themselves. So listeners, I want you all to know that
43:25
Millie and I are having this conversation because we care about
43:31
you and we see you and we understand the
43:37
journey that you’re on. And we understand the challenges that happen in the
43:43
playroom. And we want to normalize some of those tricky areas.
43:48
And we want to um we want you to hear that this urge in you that comes up
43:56
sometimes and that these parts that sometimes can feel aggressive or um that
44:03
you’re not a bad clinician. You’re not a bad person. You’re a human being. Um and
44:10
you have parts and yes, it’s our responsibility to work with the parts, but you’re not you’re not a good
44:17
clinician. So, this episode is for you everybody
44:22
because we love you. That’s just the dang truth. Millie, any last words before I
44:28
close this out? You are on track. We are on track. That’s what I want to say.
44:34
Amazing. So everyone take a moment, take a breath,
44:41
maybe close your eyes, maybe you know, hand on heart, hand on belly, and uh and
44:46
maybe there’s a message in this moment that you’d like to offer to this uh this part of yourself. Um you are the most
44:53
important boy in the playroom, everyone. Until next time.
