Welcome back to the Lessons from the Playroom Podcast. We have a really important and special conversation today. It’s a topic that we’ve never discussed in all of the episodes from the Lessons from the Playroom Podcast series and it’s on supervision.
And it’s kind of interesting to think that we went this far in the podcast series without bringing in supervision. And so I’m so glad that we’re finally going to have a conversation. And not just any kind of supervision, we’re going to be talking about reflective, relational kinds of supervision.
So listeners, I know that you are likely engaged in your own supervision and some of you may be supervisors. So my encouragement to you is to listen to this conversation in whatever way feels most meaningful for you and to have this conversation. I have three very important people in my life joining.
So I have Polly Douglas and Kim Buller and Khris Rolfe, and these three extraordinary supervisors. Oh my goodness. I’ve known the three of you for a very long time, and you do, you each play such a special role in my life.
So to orient you all to these three incredible women, they are some of the top supervisors at the Synergetic Play Therapy Institute. They have been supervisors for a very long time in this field. Not only do they supervise and do consultation in Synergetic Play Therapy, but they’ve also been trained in multiple other modalities as well.
And so they have a really beautiful perspective across the board about how to do this thing that we call supervision and how to do it in a way that is incredibly reflective and incredibly relational. So thank you all for joining and it is lovely to be in conversation with the three of you. Yeah.
So let’s just jump in. Our listeners may have a sense of when we say reflective and relational supervision, but what do we mean when we say that? And I’m going to just go around and begin to invite the conversation. And Polly, let me start with you.
When you hear reflective, relational supervision, what starts to come to mind for you? Well, as I was wondering about the topic, the first word that popped into my mind was curiosity. And I do think that that is key to how I hold space between myself and my supervisor in my room. So when I think about reflective relational, I think, how do we get curious in a collaborative, mutual way about what’s going on not only in the session with the client and the therapist that I’m working with, but also in the relationship between myself and the supervisor.
What a beautiful component to add in there, because oftentimes we just think of supervision as the supervisor facilitating the process for the therapist and then what’s happening with the therapist and their clients. And so you naming actually, we have to also be curious about what’s happening between us as well. That’s a beautiful piece.
Khris, what would you add to that? Well, I think that was beautiful, Polly. And I will say I’m going to take your stance of the word that comes from me when I think of it is trust. Because one of my ultimate goals when I’m working with supervisors is to get them to trust the process that they’re experiencing with their child.
Clients trust themselves in this process. And so I love to see supervisors move from a place of doubt and insecurity, really feeling the shoulds that they need to be something different than they are in the playroom, constantly seeking information on how to do that, and then to watch them develop more trust in themselves as they connect to themselves. And they move into this state of knowing more from a felt sense than from a thinking right brain cognitive sense.
Okay, so what a beautiful addition there that it’s not just about knowledge, but it’s about you didn’t say this word, but what I heard, Khris, was like an embodiment of this knowing. I can trust what’s happening right now in me, and I can trust how to be in the moment with my client. Yeah, what a beautiful addition.
And Kim, where would you go as we’re forming a definition, I mean, curiosity and trust feel like really core pieces. And I think it is just holding space for the relationship to be such a foundation of the process and being able to reflect on their experiences and feel really held in that experience and orienting into their inner wisdom. Their knowing and building more awareness of the places that feel more challenging and then really orienting to the places they feel really confident and being able to bring light to that as well.
And I just see it as such a parallel process for wanting to provide them an experience, a felt sense of experience in relationship with me as a supervisor that their client will get to experience with them, that we get to welcome all parts of what arises and they get to be them. I’m going to show up as me, and that’s where we get to move and trusting. It’s okay.
If it feels uncomfortable, we can lean into those areas and also celebrate the successes and the places of growth and transformation as well. So Kim, you just did this beautiful thing of bringing the whole thing full circle back to us. And what I heard you say was, in a sense, we give them an experience that then they can somehow use that experience and then turn around and use that with their clients.
So I want to dive into that because that’s something that is unique, in my opinion about a deeply reflective and relational supervisory experience. So what does it take? Let’s talk about us. So as the supervisor, we’re talking about reflection, but what’s our responsibility in that? Like, how do we how do we cultivate this thing that we’re describing? Whoever wants to begin that conversation, what happens in us, inside of us? For me, I think it really begins with my own awareness of my values, my background, my experiences, and allowing that to be present, like, where are the places for me to trust what I’m offering? And also the experiences and training that I am bringing to that relationship as well.
And knowing there’s going to be places I may get stuck as well, and my ability to consult or stay curious and keep learning feels like a really important part of what I bring to that too. And my responsibility in that. So us knowing where we are and what’s going on with us and what we’re bringing to the table, it’s one of the things that I just heard you share.
Polly, you want to jump in and add to that? Yeah, you’re seeing my body language. I feel excited about this. Yeah, I think about it from some of my first supervision experiences where I was really in a place of expert above me and then I was student and just the anxiety and the lack of embodiment I personally had in that.
And then when I started going through the Spt trainings, I was paired with a supervisor who attuned to me in the office when I was working with her, she was able to attune to herself first. There was a presence about her, a groundedness, an openness, an honesty. There was empathy.
And I felt that I remember feeling that the first time I was with her. And those are the things that I’ve tried to cultivate in myself, to be able to be present and available in the room for whatever comes up so that I can stay self reflecting. Right.
It requires that first. And me staying with myself and then offer that energy, that opportunity to my student or supervisor, I’ll just jump in that I completely agree with both of those things. I think that there’s actually so many pieces we could dive into just with this one question alone, because there’s a lot that as a supervisor that we hold, it really is like this.
I think of it as a sacred place so often because we do have to be present with another person and attune to them, but in this honored way and where we’re creating a sense of safety for both of us. I just, first of all, feel very honored in that place. And I think one of the primary things that I hold when I’m with someone else is that my ultimate goal is to connect through this relationship to Attune, that it isn’t so much about me being the expert, even though I know that there may be places that we have to move into that role to help, guide or teach.
But ultimately it feels more like this mutual relationship where we are getting to know each other and trust that there is information coming in that we know what to do with from this embodied place. And so I feel like a key piece of that is being able to be the external regulator in a way. We talk about when we work with kids that we are the larger external regulator, that we can hold this larger picture that the client might not see yet.
And I kind of see that parallel with our supervisors that we’re holding this larger picture from a more like you described, Polly, a grounded place because the supervisor might not be there yet because they’re so caught up in the energy of it, but we might be able to hold that from this grounded place and be able to bring them into that awareness. So, yeah, external regulator, I guess is one of my key things that I think I hold. How do we do this? I want to add in.
I just love where this is going as I’m reflecting on everything that every one of you is saying, which just feels like this beautiful I don’t know, like a weaving together of it, like the tapestry of supervision, these different little pieces that create this larger experience. I’m just so aware for me, and I know that this isn’t going to be surprising for any of you because I know this is your framework as well. I just can’t pull any of this off if I’m not aware of my body.
Because it’s one thing to say I’m going to be present with my supervisor, but golly, sometimes my supervisors share stories with me that are really activating or maybe there’s something relationally happening with my supervisor that’s really activating and it’s like, how do we be present with that and how do we stay reflective in that? How can I in a moment, I just want to take those two apart, right? So my brain just went to, all right, let’s say I’m with my supervisor and there’s been a relational rupture between us or something, or there’s something happening that feels challenging between us. It’s like, how can I feel that? Notice it, hold curiosity about what’s mine, about what’s the story I have about my supervisor in the moment while also still being their external regulator. It’s such an interesting place, right? Like, how do I regulate me and regulate them at the same time so we can move through this discomfort together.
And then those other places where sometimes our supervisor will bring challenging stories to us about things that they’re trying to be supportive of with their clients, and maybe they tell us a story, and there’s something about the story that’s really activating or scares us right. Scares us or triggers our own history or whatever it may be. Right.
Because we’re human. It’s like, yeah, how do I stay present in that kim with what you said? It’s like, how do I hold? Who am I? Who am I? What’s my framework? Who I know myself to be? And then also these other pieces of and how do I stay open and curious to who my supervisor is, and how do I stay connected to myself, and how do I be present, and how do I stay open? And we’re not talking about an easy task. No.
Right. I think that’s why I’m appreciating this conversation, because I think sometimes supervision can land so much as a, well, let me just tell you what to do, or Let me just walk you through this, versus a, wait, how am I doing? How are you doing? How are we doing? How are you doing with your client? Which is such a deeper level than just what the skill is. We’ll go in there and try to set the boundary or go in there and practice making those reflective statements or that kind of a thing.
So as I’m sharing that, is there anything that comes to mind for any of you that you want to add on or that you want to follow the thread on? I remember as a student of Spt not coming in very connected to the sensations in my body. And one of the questions that would often be asked was when I’d say I felt a certain way, is, how do you know? How is your body telling you? And I do feel that that was just foundational to my experience. Now, even before supervisor comes into the room, I check in with my body often.
I can appear really calm, and then when I check in, I’m just like, oh, there’s a lot stirring in here. So it’s a great way for me to connect to myself. And then, I love what you said, Lisa, of using that during supervision.
When I do experience what in my mind, I describe to myself as, oh, this is my nervous system activation. Something’s going on. There’s information.
And whether it’s I’m aroused or I’m kind of feeling dull, one or the other, and using that and even naming it out loud in the experience, I find many of my new supervisors aren’t aware of what they’re feeling in their body, and if I just ask them, what are you feeling? They might not know. I almost feel like it’s a setup, like, oh, like, wait, I don’t know, or oh, make something up even versus me reflecting this is the experience I’m having right now, and this is how yeah, Holly, I love where you’re going with that. And I have such a similar experience when I came into learning synergetic play therapy and the different experience I had in that supervisor relationship around just the value of the feedback from my body as a therapist and then getting to really get to know what is all of this wisdom and information and feedback that’s happening.
And it really happened for me through that being modeled, because I didn’t know how to do that. And I felt very in my head as a therapist and I could understand things, but it was like, what was this that I was trying to make sense of what I really felt and what was that felt sense with my clients. And so here I ended up with this beautiful model of embodiment and then these gradual invitations to start to tune in, and then I became more resourced in that, too.
And so reflecting that in a supervision session, when I’m noticing what’s happening in my body feels like the gift that I get to give back now in supporting the therapist in front of me to start to tune in and be invited into that as well. I think that’s beautiful, Kim, because one of the pieces that we’re holding when we’re doing supervision and from this relationship end and this reflective process, but for sure from an SBT lens, is this idea of authenticity in the know, tuning in and figuring out what’s true for you. And I do think as a supervisor, particularly when you first start working with them, you have to have a sense of safety in order to do that.
And one of the ways we can create that is by modeling it ourself. And by just allowing this piece where we tune into what we’re noticing as they share their experience of work with a client, we get to notice, we get to tune in, we get to name what our experience might be as we hear that. And as you name Polly, it’s like, they may not know.
How do you know? So it’s just like, well, if we’re wow, like, I can really feel this tension in my shoulders, even as you name that, just even in that moment. And then allowing ourselves to regulate in that intensity just gives permission for our supervisors to be like, oh, we actually really get to feel like I’m so used to just talking about what I’m feeling or just trying to keep it very cognitive and not really dipping into that stuff. That may feel a little scarier to go, but every time we do this with our supervisors, I feel like it does give permission to go a little further into that.
Khris, as you just said, that last piece, I literally had this tagline thing that popped into my head, which was reflective relational supervision allows you to feel about your client instead of just think about your client, right. Or it allows the supervisor to feel about their supervisor instead of just think about their supervisor. The wisdom in that, it’s huge, right? Because we all know it’s our own.
All the words you’ve been saying, if I’m not present with my experience, I’m not going to be curious about it. If I’m not able to be curious about it and I’m not able to be with it, well, how am I going to learn to trust it? If I’m not able to be present and curious and trust it, then how am I going to be able to attune and listen and be aware of the wisdom that’s coming in? I’m just thinking now from the supervisor perspective, the supervisor perspective going in there and holding that same space for their clients, how do they help their clients become aware? How do they help their clients become reflective? How do they help their clients? But if we’re so guided by the left brain, which is helpful for context, but maybe not so helpful for attunement at times, I love that. One of the things that I’ve learned over these years is that it might not feel good sometimes it just doesn’t feel good to be in your body.
And what was modeled for me and I try to model for others is that makes sense? How do we learn to be with it? How do we learn to be and expand our tolerance, our capacity for that? Because isn’t that what we’re doing with our clients? We’re not trying to get rid of what feels yucky or disturbing. We’re trying to learn to be able to be with body. We have to be in our bodies to get there.
I think that’s my experience. I love what everybody’s saying. It’s just as you said, Lisa just is weaving together this experience of supervision from a relational reflective perspective.
I’m actually noticing that I want to pause and just take a deep breath and just let all this land for a moment. I’m actually even noticing I feel slightly emotional in this conversation, so I’m just going to name that and feel that and breathe into that. There’s just such a beauty in the conversation that’s happening.
So I want to feel I mean, I think Lisa a piece, as you name that. I’m also feeling the vulnerability, just as when Polly, you were describing that with your supervisors. I feel like that’s some of the most tender work that’s where it feels like an honored place for me is because we’re saying this like we’re saying these words about feeling into your body and tuning in.
But that is not always easy. And it is a place where I think we need to create a sense of safety and recognize that sometimes supervisors need to tread lightly into that, right? And this is also what they’re realizing in their work with their clients that as we’re trying to get them to feel into that work, that might be really scary to them to step into. So I do think it’s a place where it’s not all or nothing.
There’s just this leaning into it almost of slowly beginning to even allow them to recognize that they do have a body that’s giving them information all the time, whether they’re wanting to feel it or not. But how can we use that as a tool to help guide our work? And sometimes that takes time. And so I feel the vulnerability, just as you all are even naming that.
But that’s that place where it’s like, this is treasured work that we’re doing in these relationships and we need to hold that as we go into it. There’s a little piece in here too, in that vulnerability you just mentioned where we know that that’s the space also where our history shows up in the present. And so as we’re feeling the tenderness or we’re feeling those uncomfortable feelings or we’re helping our supervisors hold that, we also know that their own history is in the room with us.
And our history is in the room with us as well. Right. And likely we’ve got our littles right, our littles that are there.
And so whatever the parts that feel insecure, the parts that feel scared or the parts that maybe we have a supervisor, the very thought of having to confront a parent that they’re working with brings up experiences. But that feels like confronting my dad when I was younger, like whatever it is. And I think that needs to be named in here too, as part of the reflective process.
Not that we’re doing therapy with our supervisors, but that there’s an acknowledgment, there’s a reflective element, that parts are in the room and experiences are in the room and that it’s okay that they’re there because they are there. And how can they be acknowledged and then supported and worked with rather than be pushed away or try not to think about it because it’s there. So I think what you’re saying, Khris, of like, this is such a deeply personal and such a deeply vulnerable place because it’s so where so much of where we are lives that makes sense.
Sharing that tulisa the place that my mind goes is just normalizing that and welcoming that. And I think that part of what I get to offer as a supervisor is sharing my experiences and times when I was in self doubt and had a hard, like in comparison and these places that were really challenging and it was hard to trust the process and being able to just create space for just the normalization of it. We’re all going to find those edges and then having that safety to explore it and be held in.
Yeah. This trust, there’s an experience that I remember. It was actually with you, Lisa, when I was in my intro course.
Actually, maybe a certification, because I was reviewing a video with you and I completely checked out during this transition with my client. And I was, like, tidying up and folding a blanket, and my client was behind me, just all this stuff going on. And I was watching this back, and I’m like, how did I miss this? And what you had offered me is if we start by trusting this happened exactly as it needed to, and then we go from there.
And really what came through that was how checked out my client would get during transitions and how he’d just lose himself. And so I then had this insight and this information to talk to his parents and just be in that place. And I think that it was through just even feeling held in my vulnerability of like, I can’t believe I did it this way.
And it was like, oh wait, what’s the wisdom in that? Actually, that was such a different experience of supervision that then gets to keep having this other ripple effect in now what I get to offer in that reflection and in that statement, and even just for parents and our clients of like, trusting this happened as it needed to, and then what do we get to take from it? What are we learning from it? And it takes looking at that vulnerability to go there too. Our supervisors are seeking support from us because they’re on a learning curve. So how do we allow them to be on a learning curve and not expect them to not be on a learning curve? And how do we continue to hold the place of, yeah, it’s okay to keep learning and it’s okay to have experiences that we get to keep learning from and that you’ve all heard me say this before around supervision, but we have the right to be clunky and we have the right to learn.
And how do we hold that in a reflective process? As a supervisor, I think is pretty important. Well, ladies, this has been a powerful discussion, a beautiful discussion. I want to reflect back to the three of you that we wouldn’t be able to have this conversation without the three of you embodying the very things that you have just shared.
So on behalf of all of the supervisors that you’ve had over the many, many years that you’ve taken on this role, thank you. And thank you for your continued reflective process within yourself. It’s an extraordinary gift you give to so many.
Thank you so much. Let’s actually end on this like a final word, right? Or a final thought. And as you’re thinking about this, you could think of it up towards maybe if it’s a supervisor that’s listening or a supervisor that’s listening.
So wherever you want to direct what you’d love to say is totally fine. What’s a final thought? Khris, what’s the final thought? I think I’m going to continue with my word. Trust.
I just feel like that’s guiding me today. And I do feel like that that applies to supervisors or supervisors who are also on their own journey of sometimes holds doubt and insecurity. And I feel like that if we continue to build trust in the relationship and trust in ourselves, that is ultimately the guiding purpose for me.
So end on that. Kim I think for me, it’s just welcoming all parts of the experience, just staying open to it, being willing to lean into it. Definitely bring in some of that trust, for sure.
Khris I think that anchors me a lot in trusting myself, trusting the process, encouraging supervisors to trust themselves and knowing that it’s not always going to be comfortable, but it’s important, and just trusting the wisdom that we have within us that’s guiding us through it all. Well, I just know I’m in awe of the three women that are on the screen with me. And I feel like today the collaboration just around this topic, supervision is really what I would want my supervisors to know too, that through relationship and we all have relationships, I love the relationships that we have with each other in this role as supervisors, that it’s such an honor to be in that relationship with our supervisors.
I have such gratitude as I have gratitude for you all. I just want them to know what they’re bringing is also teaching us. This is a co created experience, and I’m on a journey of learning, just as they’re on a journey of learning, and I’m on a journey of learning with each of you.
So I’m just grateful for that. So listeners, my hope is that if you’re a supervisor listening, that this confirmed some things for you or got you curious about some other things in your role as a supervisor, for those of you receiving supervision, I also hope this places a piece of curiosity inside of you also around your own experience in supervision. And, yeah, we’re just going to hold this as this is a conversation to keep us all curious, curious about who we are, what we’re up to and what we need.
And supervisors, supervisors, anyone else that’s tuned in. And listen, as always, take care of yourself. You are the most important toy in the playroom, including you supervisors.
Until next time. Thank you again, you three, for joining me.
