Welcome back to the next episode from the Lessons from the Playroom podcast. I have another really special and exciting guest with me today. I’m going to introduce her in just a minute.
She’s going to be bringing us a topic, everyone, that has never been talked about so far in this entire podcast series. So I’m super excited. She’ll share with us in a minute what that will be.
But I have with me the amazing Carmen Jimenez pride. Carmen, thank you so much for joining me in this conversation. You’re welcome.
Thank you for having me. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for saying yes.
I want to share with our audience a little bit about who you are before you can reveal the topic to everyone. So it’s always fun for me when I get the BIOS because I feel like I learned so much about you that I didn’t even know just from your bio. So I’m really excited to share this.
So a little bit about Carmen, everyone. She’s the founder and executive director of Outspoken Counseling and Consulting. She’s a licensed clinical social worker, a registered play therapist supervisor, a certified EMDR therapist, internal family systems therapist, registered yoga teacher.
I didn’t know that about you. That’s so cool. Registered children yoga teacher.
Even more cool. And a certified daring way facilitator. She’s also a Lego series play.
Facilitator So many cool things that you do, Carmen. She’s also the developer of Diversity and Play Therapy, Inc. And creator organizer of the 2020 Diversity and Play Therapy Summit, which I know we’re going to talk about later in this conversation.
Also, her experience as a therapist, consultant, trainer, educator, coach, and author, and I’ll also say, like, creator of amazing tools to support the therapeutic process, because that’s also so much of what you do really encompasses her approach to practice, which is, together we will grow. I love that. That’s so awesome.
So again, welcome Carmen. And Carmen, will you reveal what we’re talking about today? Well, we’re going to be talking about internal family systems, which is ifs and ifs in the playroom, ifs with children. I’m so excited.
Oh, yeah. Me love, love talking about the model and how I incorporate it in the playroom because not a lot of people is doing it. And it’s something that’s new, it’s innovative and it works super excited about it.
Before we jump into Ifs, tell us a little bit about why are you a play therapist? What got you into the work with kids? Well, funny thing is, when I was in my Master’s program, well, from Undergrad to Master’s, and I got my Master’s in a year through advanced standing, I did not want to work with people at like I did not want to be a therapist. I wanted to be a macro social worker, doing communities and organizations, creating programs, program evaluations and all of that. So that was my MSW program when I graduated from the University of South Carolina.
Going to interviews was like a clash reunion. They graduated like 300 to 400 social workers and we were all going for the same jobs. And I’m like, whoa, there’s not a lot of macro jobs in this area.
So I decided to go into Child Protective Services and that was going to be my foot in the door to government work. And I was only going to do it for a little while, then transition to macro. And I was in Charlote, North Carolina, and just working with the families and the kids and seeing that there was a lack of services, good services for the family, I was like, I really want to provide services for families.
And that’s how I started my clinical process and started doing play therapy work and working on my RPT, going to trainings and just fell in love with clients coming to me because as CPS, you go to the clients. But I started working with a small agency and was doing outpatient therapy and it was amazing and I fell in love with it. I fell in love with working with children, being creative, stepping outside of the box and just going with the flow sometimes.
It was really amazing. And now I’m here. Well, Carmen, on behalf of the field, thanks for going this direction and thank you for all that you are doing and have been doing for the field and communities and kids and families.
So thank you. You’re definitely welcome. Love it.
Well, you also said that you love Ifs, which is what we’re going to have the conversation about. So even just internal family systems, that may be new theory for our listeners. And so what is ifs? Well, if you’ve ever read or listened to The Body Keeps the Score, that’ll be more likely your first introduction to Ifs because there’s a chapter in there in reference to it.
And that’s how initially I was introduced to Ifs. But Ifs is a transformative model. It’s evidence based that helps individuals access and love their inner protective parts and wounded parts.
And I’m going to be completely transparent and honest. When I first started my journey with Ifs, it was like maybe two starts. The first start I kind of looked into it did some research.
I’m like, this makes no sense. This doesn’t sound legit. How is this evidence based? And I was like, no.
And then I went back to it after listening to some people that I trust in the field that is using the model that has Ifs therapists. And I picked it back up again, I was like, well, this is starting to make sense. To love their protective and wounded inner parts, because I believe that we sit here, and I’m looking at you, Lisa.
You’re a whole person. We see that you’re all put together, but inside, there’s multiple things that make you who you are. And that’s one of the concepts of Ifs that Ifs works with the subpersonalities inside of a person.
We have emotions inside of us. We have different roles, different parts that makes us who we are. And sometimes those are wounded parts.
I feel that we’ve all experienced trauma, and in the Ifs world, trauma is considered exiles. And there’s exiled parts within us, those parts that are holding burdens and beliefs, parts that have never been focused on, never been heard, and never been treated. That’s why I love the Ifs model, and I believe it’s an amazing model to help heal not only adults, but children as well.
As you’re talking, I’ve often related to the idea that I have all my ages in me at any given moments. Even as you’re talking, I’m like, I have my four year old and my ten year old and my 15 year old and thinking of those parts in me and then how you’re talking about it, too. Yeah.
And there’s roles attached, and there’s different purposes. Super cool. Super cool.
So keep going. Keep going. And keep getting us curious here.
Yeah, just about ifs. And this is how I explain it to my clients. Like, think about a timeline.
I’m 41. I’m admitting it out loud to people that felt weird. I’m 41.
I was born in 1980. So 1980 is right here. 2022 is right here.
And let’s look all the way back to 1980. And every single time I experienced anything that was traumatic, and I don’t define trauma to anyone. Whatever experience they feel has been traumatic to them, it’s trauma.
Every time that there was a traumatic experience, a piece of me froze right there. So now it’s me standing on this timeline at different ages. And if you think about it, and you think about that dynamic, and you kind of look back and you’re looking, and you’re seeing different parts of you frozen in that time frame, those are possible exiles.
So there’s times that you could be talking to me, and something will trigger a situation that happened to me when I was ten. And now you’re officially talking to ten year old Carmen. You’re no longer talking to 41 year old Carmen.
You’re going to be like, why is Carmen acting like a child? She is acting like a whiny child because that part of me has been triggered. And now that part is present. That part now has an opportunity to be seen and heard and oh, it’s going to be seen and heard.
And that’s one of the pieces of Ifs, that all of the parts want to be seen, they want to be healed. And there’s a lot of fears around that. And then we have a protective system.
When we say parts or protectors, there’s managers in exiles. Managers are proactive in the system that puts things in place to make sure that things run smoothly. And then there’s firefighters.
That their motto is never again. We’re not going to experience this, never again. And it’s going to come in.
Like, picture a fire truck coming down the street. They’re dipping in and out of traffic. The sirens are on.
I’ve even got cussed out before because I didn’t move over fast enough. Somebody’s screaming out the window. They’re trying to get to the fire.
And that’s how firefighters are in our system. They’re trying to get to the hurt. They’re trying to put out that fire by any means necessary.
But all of the parts work together to maintain the system. And even though they’re reactive and proactive, they’re here for good intentions. And the intention is to protect me, my system, protect those wounded parts.
And I like to say it like this, and I have people laugh that I have wonderful parts, they are wonderful protectors, but sometimes they’re slow and they’re a little dumb and they don’t care. They don’t care about the other parts. So they’re going to do their job fully without any recognition from other parts until we build that relationship.
And that is the basics of Ifs therapy that we’re going to build. The relationships with these parts help unburden the belief that these parts hold and the extreme working parts have a new job. So when transitioning that to kids, I like, well, think about if we can step in and prevent a trauma from having an extreme impact on a child and them to understand or gain some type of understanding that what they experienced is not all of them, it’s that little frozen time in their lives.
And I won’t say it won’t go away, but that roadblock or that speed bump that’s in their life, we can shave that down. And so when they hit it, it won’t knock them fully off their bikes. You just said something that I think is so interesting and so important.
I want you to elaborate on it because I find that a lot of times there’s this feeling of I just want it to go away. I don’t want to have to experience that thing or I don’t want to have to deal with that part. And what I just heard you say, no, the part doesn’t go away.
There’s a relationship that gets built with the part, which is an honoring of the part. And I think that’s so beautiful, Carmen, and I want you to keep going, expand on that because I imagine there’s people that are like, no, tell me I could get rid of the part. Why wouldn’t I just be able to get rid of the part? Trust me, there’s parts that I would love to get rid of, but some of the concepts, the motto of ifs that all parts are welcome and that all of our parts have good intentions and there’s no bad parts, when I started my journey, and still sometimes now I’m going to be completely transparent.
Those concepts are like bullcus. Put in whatever word you want to put in when I say cuss, and I’m like, it doesn’t make any sense because there’s parts of me that I don’t like all the time. There’s experiences that I’ve had in my life that I don’t want to remember, I don’t want anything to do with.
But when I take a couple of steps back, all of those experiences have made me who I am today. All of the bad ones, all of the good ones, all of them. And it’s a part of who I am.
It’s a part of my identity. And I can’t erase that. So I would rather work with it, face it head on and sit it on the shelf so it can sit there.
And if I have a memory of it, I know exactly what that’s about. I know exactly what behaviors I could do, exactly the behaviors that I don’t want to do, or if it involves other people. Oh, I know dealing with these people, how that hurt me.
So I am not going to deal with these people the same way it gives those life lessons. And if we don’t have that, if we totally get rid of it, we could possibly run in the risk of getting rid of the lessons that comes with it. Oh, my gosh.
One of my favorite quotes is, if you’re going to fully love yourself, you can’t reject the experiences that made you you. Exactly. As much as we’d like to erase, like you said, erase or pretend or they were our experiences.
And then, yeah, I love what you’re saying. It’s so beautiful a lot. It’s just been the past few years that I’ve really embraced a lot of my story, and now that I have it’s, like, it has no control over me anymore.
I’m not embarrassed about it. That level of shame that I used to carry, I don’t have it anymore. I’m like, yeah, I did this, I did that.
But this is who I am right now. And if I did not do those things, if I did not have those experiences, I wouldn’t be the Carmen that you all know. So beautiful.
So what does this actually look like with kids? How do you bring these concepts into the play space? So it looks different with different kids, their level of understanding of themselves, understanding of why they’re in therapy.
So, again, depending on the age, I do talk parts with my kids, all of them, whether it’s focused on their emotional side of things, and I use inside out all the time. So being able to teach kids about their feelings, increasing their emotional literacy, that there’s a happy part, there’s joy in them, there’s sadness, there’s anger, and treating those as parts. So if they can grasp that piece, we’re on the right road.
I worked with a started with him at three, and then he turned four on me. He’s getting older. He says, I’m an old man, Ms. Carmen. I’m like, okay, old man. I started with him when he was younger, and we worked with emotions, teaching him emotions.
So he went from throwing the table and chairs in the child development center. And when people think of table and chairs, they’re thinking like, adult table and chairs. But those little ones are really light, the ones that sits real close to the floor, he’s able to flip those.
He was flipping those, and it was hitting other kids. And he was very aggressive because he could not communicate. If he was still hungry after snack time, he couldn’t communicate that.
So he’ll flip a chair because he was angry, because he was hungry. So when I was working with him, teaching him about his feelings, those parts of him, there’s a part of you that is angry that you’re still hungry, and that’s the part that’s going to come out and show everyone. So teaching him that, teaching how it feels in his body, because it’s really body focused as well, he was able to stand and scream, I’m angry.
And then another one that we worked on was frustrated. I’m frustrated. So he would go and stand in a corner and scream, I’m angry.
I’m frustrated. And his teacher still had an issue with that. So I was like, well, do you want him throwing the chair to the table or do you want him screaming and trying to communicate with you? And she thought about it.
She was like, I’ll take the communication. And I was like, all you have to do is go and reassure him and hear him hear that part. I hear that you’re frustrated.
I hear that you’re angry. So now he’s just been heard so he can calm down. He doesn’t have to scream it anymore, because the person that he’s trying to get attention from, which is the teacher, has now acknowledged that part of him he’s able to calm down.
Now he’s able to communicate what he wants. I’m still hungry. Something about it.
So that goes back to what you were saying earlier about how fundamentally each part wants to be heard and wants to be acknowledged. That’s such a cool concept, just thinking about behaviors and the idea of parts have their expression. We have their certain behavioral expression.
We find so often that adults just want to shut the expression down. And what I’m hearing you say is acknowledge the part. Acknowledge the part, yes.
Still have to deal with the behavior, but acknowledge the part. It makes such a big difference. It makes such a big difference.
And I tell my clients all the time, just imagine if we can just address these things so it won’t turn into extreme behaviors. And then talking with parents, parents have parts as well. And sometimes when a kid is acting out, a parent might have a part that comes up.
Well, they don’t know what to do. So now they feel like a horrible parent, and that is the parent that’s showing up instead of common, cool parent that can handle everything. So when the kids are acting out or the kid is in parts, the parent can be in parts as well.
So it’s important for the parents to also understand that everyone has a protective system, and sometimes those protectors come up and they work really hard in certain situations. Okay, Carmen, I have a question for you. Okay.
All right. So we’re talking about the parts as the kids and the parents go, but as you’re talking, I’m just thinking and as therapists, when we’re in the room with kids, our parts come up. Oh, yes.
Okay, so take us down that a little bit. I think even just acknowledging therapists, our parts come into the room too. Yeah.
Any training that I do in reference to ifs I’m always talking about therapist parts, recognizing who’s in the room and regardless of how much work that we do on our personal side, I’m a therapist with a therapist. I’m not embarrassed to say that I’m a therapist that still gets consultation because I have some cases that are very difficult. And I reach out to other people for guidance and for help because my parts come up.
On the professional side, if I have a kid that’s coming in and they’re still the same behaviors over and over again and the parents are frustrated, and usually the parents get frustrated at the therapist. A part of me shows up like, you’re a horrible therapist. You don’t know what you’re doing.
Now that part is reactive. Let me sign up for another training. Now I have 5000 training hours in a two year time frame because this part feels that it’s not a good therapist.
And I’ve been there before, so that’s how I can speak on it. Or that part can be like, well, we’re not going to sign up for any more trainings, but we’re going to go and eat your feelings away. Or maybe I should go to Target after work because clearly I’m a horrible therapist and I don’t have the best toys, so I need to go buy some more toys while I’m here.
I might as well buy something for the house too. I’m already a bad therapist. Let me be a good mom and wife and come home with all this stuff.
So there’s shopping that’s more reactive. And then there’s my managers that are proactive that is sitting before each therapy session, reading through notes, figuring out, well, what didn’t work last time, what can I put in place for this session? How can I work with the parents doing a little bit more than I need to do? So that’s on the professional side, with parts on the personal side, if you had a kid come in and they’ve been sexually abused and you have a personal experience, the personal experience could be you experienced it or someone close to you experienced it, but you’ve been exposed to it. Now parts of you are coming up.
So are you really the therapist? Are you trying to be the child’s friend and comfort the child or be the child’s mom? Be there for the child in a way that their parents wasn’t there for them or a way that your parents wasn’t there for you, and you’re trying to do that with the child. So how much therapeutic work is going to get done? There the phrase that you said, who’s in the room? That is such a cool who’s in the room? I think as therapists, we all intuitively know that at times there’s multiple parts of us that are in the room. But I love this piece that you’re like, no, there’s a deeper exploration here.
No, really, who’s in the room? You really need to know who’s in the room. And it takes a lot because I don’t want anyone to know that I have trouble in the playroom. I want to come out and be like, I’m a perfect play therapist, but that’s not always the case.
Last week I got beat up. I got kicked and hit, and she almost spit on me. And there was a certain part of me that was present.
Then I knew that if she would have got the spit on me, that would be a whole nother part coming in. So learning about our own systems as clinicians and knowing those triggers, knowing those things that activate us, knowing those subject matters that really don’t sit well, and doing some work around, that is key. I hear it all the time from therapists, like, oh, I can set separate home and work my personal life and professional, that’s a lie.
Can we say that at the same time? Can we just go, one, two, three? That’s a lie. Like, no, you can’t do that. And I’ve just witnessed that a lot on a personal level.
When I come in, I’m just disconnected because something’s going on in my personal life or there’s some professional stuff that’s going on that’s not sitting well. It shows in my work. So I believe that we all have to do the work and know our systems, know what parts of us comes up.
And again, I believe everybody has parts, whether they want to subscribe to the Ifs model or not. Everyone has parts, and those parts can be activated in a positive or a negative. Totally, totally, totally love this conversation.
I think it’s just so normalizing. I mean, the Ifs framework, as you’re describing it is such a cool framework to be able to hold our experiences, and I just don’t think therapists hear enough. Yes, you’re going to get activated in the playroom.
Parts are going to come up. There’s going to be triggers. And this idea that somehow that’s never going to happen or you can prevent it from happening.
I don’t know about you, Carmen, but there are times when I’m moving through my life and the part shows up and it’s like, wow, how did you get here? Because I didn’t. And there she is. And there she is.
So this idea that somehow we can prevent parts from coming into the room, that’d be like me trying to predict it’s snowing right now. It’s like me trying to predict, are we going to get one inch or like ten inches out there? I don’t know. You can’t predict it.
But if you have that relationship, if you have a relationship with your internal system, when that part comes in, you’re going to be able to communicate with that part. You’re not going to be scared of it. Exactly.
You got to develop some trust so that part is going to trust what you say, and then you can get that part to calm down and step back very easily. And remember, we have a protective system because it wants to do good. So I don’t want to get rid of all the things that I’ve been through because those things have taught me lessons.
I don’t want them coming in and showing out. I want them to come in and whisper. Carmen you remember.
Oh, I do remember. Thank you for reminding me that I don’t need to stop at the target. Thank you for reminding me that I have this coming up and don’t need to be spending, I need to be saving.
Thank you for that because I have that relationship, and now that part trusts me. It’s another cool way of describing self regulation. Carmen yeah, another cool way of that idea, that topic of connecting with the part and being able to soothe the part or speak to the part or have a relationship with the part or whatever.
Acknowledge the part about it. Acknowledge the part. Just yesterday I had a therapy session, and at the end of it, I was like, did I really do any work, because I only said two phrases.
What are you noticing, and how do you feel towards it? And my client sat there and did internal work and set with her system, set with her parts and listened to her parts, and all I did was sit there and say over and over again, what are you noticing? She told me what she was noticing. Then I came back with, well, how do you feel towards that part? She said what? It said, just sit with that. Continue to notice.
That was it. That was all I was saying. But at the end, she was like, Carmen, this was the best session.
I know so much about this part of me now. I feel so much lighter and so much better. And I was like, yes.
And then I sat back like, well, I really didn’t say nothing. I held that space. I created that space for her to be able to come in.
And I was that self energy for her to be curious about her system, to want to get to know that part, because she was in a space with me that I was created and I was holding for her that she couldn’t create on her own. Yeah. So beautiful.
Well, Carmen, I want to talk about the work that you’re doing with diversity and the diversity summit and whatnot before I switch over there and ask you some questions about that, is there anything else that you would love to say regarding ifs and play that you’d love us to think about or consider? Don’t turn your face against it. Just think about it. Think about that.
This is yet another model that can be very beneficial in the playroom, that can help your kids and can help families and do a little bit of research, because if you do spend a little bit of time on it, it’ll make sense to you. And if you have questions, ask questions about it, because it makes sense if you give it an opportunity. I think a lot of us, I’m going to say speak using me in it as well.
We get so connected to certain models, and we feel that’s the only way that we can operate and function in the playroom. And that’s not the case because there’s so many amazing models and interventions and different things out there, and it’s about helping and healing the people that we’re working with. So if there’s something out there that’s going to help me heal a little one, I want to know all about it.
So that’s what ifs does in my practice. So just be curious about it and be open to it. Awesome.
So, listeners, once again, it’s internal family systems if you are going to go do a little bit of research. So thank you so much for that part of our conversation. So, Carmen, share with us this other amazing stuff that you’re yeah, talk to us about the summit. It’s. Diversity and play therapy.
Let’s be transparent because it’s supposed to be.I submitted a workshop to Apt and it got denied. And I was in my feelings. I had parts up, a lot of parts up. Some of it was I wasn’t able to fully explain what I was trying to do. And then some of the comments were like, well, this doesn’t make sense, this model, they wasn’t open to Ifs and play. So it’s partly on me, and then I feel it’s partly on people that did not have an understanding of the model, leave it at that. And I was bothered by it. So I woke up early, like three or 04:00 in the morning. I’m like, Well, I’m going to do something about this because I know that there’s plenty of people that are out there that are doing creative things and more diverse things that do not have a platform to be able to present and talk about it. So that’s how diversity and Play Therapy was born. It was summertime. I woke up, created a graphic and said, I’m having a summit in December.
And I was like, Holy cuss. Put in any word that you want to put right there for cuss. I didn’t know what I was doing, so I didn’t know what was going on.
So I just got to work and started, what do I really want to put out there? So I put it out there before even having it all together, honestly. So diverse clinicians, doing diverse interventions with diverse populations. I could have made it all black, all African American, but I think about my hometown.
There are no black play therapists or no black therapists in my hometown, but there is plenty of people of color. So I wanted to create a platform that anyone can come and sit around the table and learn and be able to go back to diverse populations and work with them. So my first presentation was Playing while Black, using ifs in the playroom.
I wanted everybody there because people might be working with children of color and now they need to know about a lot of their parts that are impacted by racism and impacted by the color of their skin. So people was able to walk away with that information and it was everybody, because we never know who you’re going to be working with. So that’s been the basis of that platform.
Somewhere for everyone can come and get skills and be able to go back to the communities that they serve. And another piece of that is promoting play therapy with diverse therapists and giving them an opportunity to get continuing education to learn about play therapy if they don’t have all the funds and the ability to do that to make it accessible. We did a Play Therapy 101 with one of my amazing colleagues, Sherry Ketchum, amazing presenter, and she did the basics.
She went back through the history of play therapy and we gave 6 hours for $35. And the $35 was just to cover the labor of having someone do the certificates and getting the CES. And we introduced play therapy to a large group of people, so for them to get their hours and start working on their RPT and since we’re three years this year is three years, in the past three years, we have helped people get supervision and consultation for their RPT.
We’ve paid for the application fee. We’ve helped people do the Leadership Academy for the association for Play Therapy. We had scholarships available for I want to say it was the first animal assistant conference recently.
And we have ongoing scholarships. So when people want to go to a play therapy conference or a workshop and they can’t afford it, they fill out the scholarship and we assist them as much as we can. And that’s where all the funds go from The Summit.
It goes right back into the community. Like, we don’t take anything from that. We pay our Diversity and Play therapy bills, and then we push that money right back out to people paying for Master classes.
We have an amazing Masterclass coming up with Eliana Gill, working with children with sexual behaviors. And it’s at Cost because these big time I love saying big time because they are big time, wonderful presenters, they’re expensive. Everyone has to pay their bills and eat.
And these trainings are 300, $400. And we can offer it for a lower amount and get an agreement with the presenter because they know what we’re doing to be able to offer this information, to help create more play therapists, to help get these skills in different communities that don’t have access. So that is the ultimate goal of Diversity and play Therapy.
Well, Carmen, like I said at the beginning of this, thank you for choosing the path that you chose and for everything you’re doing for our community. It’s really your vision is extraordinary and just you’re a super inspiring individual. And thank you so much for just sharing what you did.
And let’s give our listeners information on where they can find out more about you, about The Summit, about the programs you’re talking about. So where can people find you? So my main website is Carmenpride.com, and if you’re on social media, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, I do funny and weird stuff.
Yeah, she does. She’s a great TikTok. When a client cancels, that’s like, my TikTok time.
So across all social media, it’s Pride LCSW. And I am the type, if you follow me, you inbox me. I’m going to respond back.
I’m the one doing all the interaction. So it’s not someone on my team doing stuff, it’s me. So I’m constantly interacting with people.
So that’s two ways to reach me, pride LCSW on social media. My website, Carmenpride.com, I have a training site, it’s Trainwithcarmen.com
Very easy, has all the trainings listed. And if you want to know about diversity and play therapy, just diversityandplaytherapy.com. And all the information is coming up, and we’re working like crazy on the back end getting things together for this year’s summit, which is going to be amazing.
Again, we’ve locked in our keynote speaker, and I’m super excited about it. Can you announce the dates? Do you have everything? Yes, I do have the dates. Let me get my little calendar before I mess up the dates, because I’ve been known to do that.
So the dates for the next Diversity and Play Therapy Summit is the 9th, 10th, and 11 December. All right, everyone. 9th, 10th, 11 December.
Beautiful. And we’ll be putting out information soon. And if you follow me on any of my platforms, you’ll be able to see all of that, because we cross post to make sure people have the information.
Carmen, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for this conversation, and thank you for saying yes when I asked you to come be a part of this. Just thoroughly enjoyed our combo today, so thank you so very much.
You’re welcome. Thank you. All right, listeners, wherever you are in the world, get curious about your parts and get curious about how you feel about your parts, that piece that Carmen shared with us there at the end. And remember, you’re the most important toy in the playroom, so be gentle with yourselves and take care.
